I love Center Parcs and have been to most of the UK sites for holidays. My favourite is the Elveden Forest site. It seems to have everything well set out and has plenty of flat areas so works well for young children learning to ride their bikes. Having been a number of times with my immediate family, friends and groups I thought some of my readers may find it beneficial if I share some tips on how to Cut the Cost of Center Parcs Breaks. Everyone that has discovered them by now will be fully aware that they are not the cheapest holiday location around. In fact, in 2022, Which published a survey saying that Center Parcs is one of the worst value-for-money breaks in the UK. But, many of us still love to go so it helps that there are ways to make a stay cost less.
Cut the Cost of Center Parcs Breaks
What is Center Parcs?
Quite simply it’s a holiday village with a range of activities that are great for both kids and adults. Be warned, most activities will need to be paid for. It can get extremely expensive during the summer holidays. In fact, many have found cheaper holidays abroad as the prices really can jump up during this time of year. Whilst there, you get to use the pool, outdoor play areas and indoor soft plays for free. Or at least it’s included in the payment you make when you book a stay there. They have locations in the UK and also abroad.
Can the Site You Choose Affect the Cost? (UK)
If you don’t mind which site you stay at, compare each of the site options. You will often find, the cost of a stay for the same duration and same number of guests is different at each site. It makes sense to compare the closest 3 sites to where you live. Each will differ in price, you’ll also need to factor in the price of petrol to get to each. Weight up the saving and see what works best for you. If the saving is less than £40 for example, you might find driving an extra 30-40 minutes isn’t worth going to go to one that is further. Plus, you’ll gain more holiday time and won’t have to drive as far.
By comparing locations you can save hundreds of pounds on your holiday which could be saved or spent on activities.
Center Parcs Outside of the UK
Although I’ve yet to venture to any of the Center Parcs locations outside of the UK they are supposed to be far cheaper. You will find details for these on the Center Parcs EU website. You’ll need to factor in costs for getting to the Center Parcs location for all going to make sure it is worth booking. Don’t forget, the weather abroad might be better in European locations than in the UK when you choose to go.
How You Can Book European Center Parcs Breaks for Less
As mentioned a break at center parcs can be expensive, especially in the UK. If you want to cut the Cost of Center Parcs Breaks in the EU however then visit the site for the country of the center parcs you would like to stay at. You’ll need to make sure you choose the translate option unless you can read the language of the chosen country. You may be able to find breaks even cheaper there. Always compare with the UK site when booking European sites. It can also be important to check the UK locations as in some cases they may be cheaper. That way you could save yourself a long journey.
Last Minute Breaks
A handy tip you’ll love is to keep a close eye on the last-minute break prices on the Center Parcs website. Here you may find promo codes for short breaks at specific locations with a specified date period. There may also be breaks that are sold out on the main website search that are available under this section. You will also find “offers” that are the same price on the site when looked up specifically so not all the breaks listed are actual “special offers”. Last-minute breaks are not always any cheaper even though they’re disguised as being on offer! Be warned, Center Parcs books up quickly. If you’re holding out for a last-minute deal you might be disappointed. If you really do want to go it doesn’t always pay to wait until the last minute.
Book Early
Personally, I found one of the best ways to get a break for a lower price is to book early. You’ll find as the time gets closer to the date you want the prices can go up by a considerable amount. This is certainly the case at peak holiday times. Be prepared, save, and try to book early if you can. The payment doesn’t have to be made all at once. Booking early is a great way to save hundreds of pounds. I understand from the staff there that prices for breaks go up as accommodation options start getting booked. The more demand for a particular option, the higher the price for that accommodation option becomes. Therefore it makes sense to book early.
Be Selective of the Season You Go
It helps to consider going in winter or early spring when the weather isn’t as good or as predictable. This can really help cut the cost of Center Parcs breaks as these times it tends to be far cheaper for a break. Of course, you need to avoid Christmas, New Year’s Eve, and any half-terms that come up. During off-season, you can save well over £1000 depending on the type of accommodation you choose. Most often, prices can be cheaper in September, November, early December, January, February, March, Mid to end of April, May, and June (excluding any half terms etc.).
Should you Go During School Term Time?
Not the best option when you have children of school age, but it can make a big difference to the cost of a break. Although not the most favourable option this is something that parents are due to do as a result of hiked up prices during school holidays. Be warned, some schools will fine you. But, this fine is normally far less than the savings you’d make going away at that time so it’s an option many parents are prepared to accept. It does however make sense, to go whilst the schools are open for those that have children that are not yet in school.
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Make use of Inset Days/Teacher Training Days/ Strike Days etc.
These days can be used in your favour to reduce the number of days off school that you’ll take off if you wish to go during term time. In one instance this year, my son was only in school for 3 days over the course of a week due to a strike day and bank holiday. If it had been the same for my daughters we could have considered booking a break and missing just 3 days of school so we could get a holiday at a reasonable price. Where these days off are Mondays you could consider going for a weekend break. Bear in mind a weekend break costs more than a midweek break. Forget bank holiday weekend breaks being cheaper, Center Parcs have been pricing them higher for years now having seen so many book them in the past.
Bear in Mind Not All School Holidays are the Same
I’ve noticed having children in two different boroughs that their holiday dates don’t always coincide. Firstly, my son is at primary school and my daughters are at Secondary school. Dates between primary and secondary schools are not always the same. The same can be said between boroughs. You may find that your child is on their break at a different time to friends that are at different schools. In these instances, it can help to check pricing. Where Center Parcs haven’t picked up on this and increased prices, you could again save hundreds of pounds. I’m watching out for this at the moment!!!!
When to Arrive/Leave at Center Parcs
Although your accommodation won’t be available until 4 pm on the day you arrive you can arrive any time from 10 am onwards. On the date of departure, you must vacate the accommodation by 10 am. The good thing is you can stay on the site until midnight on that day. If you’re aiming to cut the cost of Center Parcs breaks it makes sense to arrive as early as possible and leave late. This allows you to make the most of your time there and extend your stay to full days rather than two partial days. A midweek break would be 5 days, a week stay 8 days, and a weekend 4 days.
Is it Worth Paying for Early Arrival / Early Check-in at Center Parcs?
Center Parcs charge an early arrival fee if you would prefer to get into your accommodation at 2 pm instead of 4 pm. The check-in time used to be 3 pm. Early check-in is included if you are staying in an exclusive lodge or Treehouse. Most guests will wait for the normal check-in time as you can use the facilities from 10 am. It hardly seems worth forking out the extra for a mere 2 hours. It costs approx. £30 – £50 depending on the site. Early check-in is only available at Sherwood Forest, Elveden Forest and Woburn Forest.
Should You Go for a Midweek Break, Week Break, or a Weekend Break?
The cost of your stay can be affected by the length and demand. Weekends tend to be busy as it is much easier to squeeze these types of breaks in. They also mean fewer days of school will be missed. If you compare a week’s stay (7 nights), midweek (4 nights), and weekend (3 nights) you’ll find that a midweek stay works out cheaper per person per night. This seems to be the case at most times although do check in case of changes.
Accommodation Options
Your choice of accommodation can greatly affect the price of your stay. If you want to cut the cost of Center Parcs breaks opt for the New style Woodland Lodges. These are the most cost-effective accommodation option available. They have all the essentials and work well as a base for dining, sleeping etc. Then you can Get the Most from Your Center Parcs Break with the free activities and also pay for some if you so wish.
Go in a Group
It can be really good fun going to Center Parcs with a group of family or friends. I’ve been with my parents, siblings and their families, I’ve also taken my family and friends and their family too. It’s lovely for the kids to go on a holiday with either cousins or friends as a group and can add to the enjoyment. We found that often it can cost less per person per night to get a larger lodge. It is important to check the cost of this when booking as it doesn’t always work out depending on when and where you go.
Book Off-Site Activities
Activities at Center Parcs can cost an arm and a leg depending on what you choose. It can be worthwhile looking at activities held in the surrounding area outside of Center Parcs. These can often cost less. If the saving is substantial you might be better off booking those instead. It isn’t an issue leaving the site and returning during the duration of your break.
Booking On-Site Activities
Some of the activities available at Center Parcs are more budget-friendly than others. You might want to consider booking things like adventure golf, badminton, table tennis, short tennis, street karts, archery, mini jet skis etc. Each site has a range of activities with a price list to choose from to help you keep costs down.
Make Full Use of the Free Activities
Don’t forget the pool use is included in the price so make full use of that. There are also outdoor play areas, indoor soft plays, and a disco (days these are held will vary between sites) that kids will enjoy using that are free and ideal to help Cut the Cost of Center Parcs Breaks. It’s a great place to explore mindfulness with your child(ren). If the weather is good you might also like to take full advantage of the beach. These beaches have golden sand perfect for building sandcastles and are next to lakes in case children want to splash around and cool off. Kids will also love exploring the natural surroundings and seeing what they can find. They also love to play in the woods and there they can find all sorts of activities to keep themselves entertained (with adult supervision of course).
Take your Own Activities
There are all sorts of great toys that you could take with you for kids to play with whilst they’re not swimming or cycling to help keep costs low. Take a ball for a kick around, a frisbee can also be great fun, colouring in sheets and crayons/pens etc. These sorts of items are great for kids to keep themselves occupied when parents are cooking lunch. Explorer kits for kids to discover the local bugs, ring toss games, water pistols, bats and balls etc., are all great for day time play. Board games are ideal for the evening whilst children are winding down for bed. Bring games you already have and kids enjoy playing with. This helps with keeping costs down although most kids will want to simply ride bikes and play in the pool aaaaaaaallllllll day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make the Most of the Pool
I’ve given this a section of its own as it’s one of the main draws for us as a family. My kids love to swim and they only get to go swimming when we go on holiday. As a result, the main activity they enjoy at CenterParcs is the pool. These pools aren’t just simple swimming pools. These pools have lazy rivers, a wide range of slides, rapids, a wave pool and more. with all the restrictions now having been lifted post-pandemic we are all free to spend as much time as we like making full use of the pool. My kids could easily spend most of each day there. That comes in handy as it then reduces the number of activities I need to book for them which in turn helps me save money.
Take Your Own Bikes/ Scooters, Roller Skates, Skateboards etc
We love cycling and one of the draws of Center Parcs for us is cycling along the lovely mostly car-free roads taking in the beauty of the natural surroundings. The price of the bikes can vary depending on which you choose and how long you book them for. Options start from 1 day. We’ve paid around £120 to hire 4 bikes in the past during a midweek break.
Taking your own bikes can help cut your overall costs even if you take some and hire some. It is important to note that it’s best not to take expensive bikes. From having spoken to staff there in the past there are spates of thefts of expensive bikes. Also, some now take their bikes into the lodges overnight or when in the accommodation to keep them safe.
Taking scooters, roller skates, and skateboards can also work well for children that might not be as good on bikes as some other family members. These are all great fun for kids and can help tire them out allowing kids to go to bed early and parents to snuggle on the sofa and watch some tv before bed.
Is it Worth Hiring a Towel for the Pool?
This depends on how tight money is for you. If you’ve scrimped and saved all year as many will to be able to afford a break at Center Parcs you might prefer to take your own towel. Towel hire is £2 per towel, but you’ll be hiring one each time you swim. If you go once every day or even once in the morning and again in the evening that two pounds times the number of family members needing one will add up. We normally go for 5 day breaks, if we were to hire towels out each swim we’d be looking at an additional £50+ pounds. We normally take our own towels as they are pretty large and we don’t mind hanging them up to dry when we return to the lodge after each swim.
Don’t Pay to be Located Near the Center
If all the party are able to walk or cycle, or even be added to a seat on a cycle then don’t bother paying the extra to be located near the center. It is the luck of the draw where you’ll be located but if you don’t need to be close, don’t bother spending the extra money. This costs approx £70 (2023). The journey by bike can be especially lovely to the center and they have plenty of places you can park your bikes. Most often you won’t be that far from the center anyway. It is a great way to Cut the Cost of Center Parcs Breaks.
Take Food/Buy Food from a Local Supermarket Off the Site
We often take food with us when we go. It is easy enough to bag up supplies that can be prepared in the accommodation on site. I’ll often have a few bags of snacks, drinks, food and even cool boxes too. I even pack my own pans, colander, utensils etc as those supplied aren’t up to my standards or large enough for my requirements. There is a supermarket onsite and some prices aren’t too bad yet others are rather extortionate. Don’t forget, you are paying for the convenience. If you can’t take food with you then pop out to a local supermarket near the site. Simply do a Google search, and you’ll discover there are plenty to choose from.
Do A Meal Plan
For those that can manage to create a meal plan and stick to it, this is for you!!! Be prepared, bring all, most, or some of the items required for each meal and then buy the rest of the items from a local supermarket or even from the Parc supermarket. By bringing most of the items yourself you’ll make substantial savings and even if you have to buy a few items there it won’t break the bank. Meals on site can be expensive as can the 3 gazillion snacks kids seem to somehow consume when not at school. By being prepared you keep costs down to a minimum.
Take Everything You Might Need
Be prepared, make sure you take as much as you can that you will need for your trip. This may include food for meals, snacks, drinks, swimming accessories for the kids, a change of swimwear, wooden logs for the log burner, disposable BBQ, chalk for the chalkboard, washing up liquid, dishwasher tablets, a bucket and spade for the beach, tea, coffee, sugar, seeds, and nuts for feeding the local wildlife, plasters, antiseptic cream, etc. This means you firstly won’t need to worry about finding the items when there, and you won’t need to pay more than local supermarket prices.
Restaurants on Site, Are They Worth It!
Honestly, it can be a bit hit and miss. We heard the food at the Indian restaurant at Elveden was awful by some and others have said it isn’t bad. The one thing most agree on is the pricing being excessive. If you want to get something that is more value for money there is nothing stopping you from heading to your car and going to a local restaurant outside the grounds. Check the rating first though to make sure there are good reviews. That way you are more likely to get a good meal for a price that is more pocket friendly. Don’t forget restaurant reviews, whether they are for the restaurants at Center Parcs or offsite are relative. It all depends on the individual’s taste.
Chains onsite like Bella Pasta, and Cafe Rouge will often have food that is passable. It can be far more convenient to book and eat at those.
Dining Out at Lunch Time
If you decide you want to enjoy a meal onsite you’ll find that some of the restaurant chains such as Cafe Rouge offer a fixed lunch menu. They can end up saving you money and always seem to have enough options on the kid’s menus too! These are normally available from noon until 5 pm so you could technically squeeze in an early dinner. Bella Italia at Center Parcs also has reasonable prices considering its location.
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How to Get A Day Pass to Center Parcs!!!
If you know a family member heading down to Center Parcs you could get a visitors pass for yourself and your family. The individual who has the booking simply needs to book you in and pay the charge. Then you guys can enjoy a great day together using the free or paid activities. This pass lasts from 10 am until midnight.
How to Get a Free Stay at Center Parks
Yes, you read that correctly. You can actually get into Center Parcs for free. This works slightly differently from the Day Pass at Center Pass. Where a family member(s) have booked and have a bed or beds that they are not using, as the bed(s) have been paid for it means that they are entitled to invite a guest or guests for free. We’ve had times where we went with others and we all had a bed not being used. A quick rejig could get some extra friends in for a few days for free.
Come Back Soon Offer
After you have enjoyed a stay at any of the UK Center Parcs sites all individuals whose email addresses appear on the booking will receive an email offering a Center Parcs discount code if booked within a certain time period. They may also be offered vouchers to spend at the site during their stay.
Alternatives to Center Parcs?
Well, unfortunately, I’ve not been anywhere yet that is similar although there are plenty of holiday villages that I have yet to visit. Finding an alternative may provide you with a cheaper option although it may not be the same calibre as Center Parcs. I must admit this place has a special place in my heart. I’ve been so many times with a range of different people and created some wonderful memories. If you know anywhere that is equivalent I would love to know.
I hope you enjoyed reading my post Cut the Cost of Center Parcs Breaks and found the information helpful. Have you ever been to Center Parcs in the UK or elsewhere? If not, is this somewhere you might consider?
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I always like when I can cut the costs during trips. I’ll keep your ideas in mind. I always book early and look for deals online!
Booking early seems to be the best way to making savings with this company.
Wow, Center Parcs looks like so much fun, definitely an experience worth having for the entire family. But I’m glad you’ve shared these tips on cutting costs, because just like everywhere else, families are really feeling the pinch of rising prices! Thank you!
Tell me about it. If you can save on a trip it can make a big difference.
I have never been to this place. With all this info, I may just check it out.
You will love the place. So many lovely natural spots.
Sounds like a nice place to go. I’ve never been to Center Parcs, but I would love to visit. I’ll need to look at holiday prices for when I can go.
It can be really good fun there.
This seems like a fun place to get your kids outside, and having some fun in the sun!
It is a lovely place to enjoy a holiday.
Planning a family vacation can be expensive, so I appreciate the tips and tricks shared here.
It really can. The cost of a Center Parcs break can be high when you select activities too so anything to keep costs down helps.
Wow! This looks like a really wonderful place that every kids would really love!
It is soooo much fun there!!!
I would love to take my kids here I’m sure they’re going to love this place!
It has loads to keep them busy and having fun.
Lots of great tips and ideas – I love Centre Parcs but it can get so expensive!
Tell me about it. I am hoping to find a great deal soon – I’ve got my eyes peeled checking the prices at the moment!!
These Center Parcs sound perfect for a family vacations. Thanks for sharing your money saving tips. I will use them to save money on my next break there.
That’s great o hear. Have a wonderful time.
This looks like a really fun place with a ton of stuff to do. I just hate how places like this can break the bank! Good tips on how to get the price down a bit.
It is good fun and knowing how to save money on a break really does help.
These were fantastic tips for cutting costs while visiting center parcs! I’ll have to bookmark for the next planned trip!
I hope they help you save lots next time you go!!
I had never heard of this place. It sounds like a lot of fun though.
It really is a lovely place for a holiday.
What a fun place to have a holiday. It’s a shame it’s so expensive although I’m sure your tips will help to keep costs down.
These are the ways I’ve found can help reduce the overall cost of your trip. They can make a substantial difference which helps.
This sounds like a fun place to go. I want to take my son to somewhere like this, he’d love it there. Great advice to help us make savings too.
This is a lovely place for families.
I love the idea of going to a holiday village. I love that it offers so many activities. My kids would love to go to a similar place for the weekend.
They really would love it there. Mine can’t wait to go back.
Yes! Plus I love your tips on cutting costs because we do that, too. We had a staycation a few weeks back and we were able to save on room and food costs because of some deals we scored online.
That’s great to hear. It’s amazing how much you can save if you try.
Center Parcs have always been too expensive for us considering that we don’t even have a car, so we have to factor in train cost for a family of four. Although saying that I’ve never tried a last minute search to Center Parcs. I have tried to look at advance prices, but like you mentioned, during school break, they are ridiculously expensive. Maybe I’ll do that next time
look out for prices when there are inset days or staff training days. You may need to miss a few days but if the kids are in the younger years of learning it doesn’t really affect their education.
These are all such wonderful tips for saving when taking a trip here! Love it and would so love to visit myself.May have to add this to my bucket list! It is ever growing 😉
It’s a good one to have on your list. Aim to do it sooner rather than late as you’ll want to goo again after seeing what it’s like.
I have still never been to a centre parcs, mainly because of the price, so there are some good tips here, thanks
I know, the price really does make it hard especially when you can sometimes get a holiday for less abroad.
I think i’d save up a lot for a Center Parc break. This place is awesome and kids would really be happy and excited for this.
I had never realised that Center Parcs had locations outside of the UK! I will check them out!
I know, it’s great. Sometimes those can work out better value for money.
Booking early is the best tip on here. When you book late, you’re at their mercy, and it’s always more because there’s more demand.
That can most often be the case. I personally recommend early booking to be on the safe side.
What a fun place to go with family! I love that there is something for everyone. I do agree that traveling during off season can save a ton of money. This is something we do as a family because costs can add up quickly.
Maureen
They really can add up. It does help to know ways to make savings.
While it can add up, this sounds like an awesome place for a family vacation! I’m in the US so there aren’t any of these around us. A similar concept we have here would be Kalahari Resorts. It’s an indoor waterpark with outdoor pools and a large arcade and bowling alley and laser tag and rides and escape rooms with only the waterpark and pools included. We’ve gone twice now, but it definitely adds up when the kids want to do ALL the things.
I’m not familiar with this place but it seems like I will enjoy this place there are a lot of fun activities. Thanks for all the good tips.
Center Parcs are brilliant holidays! I haven’t been in a long time, last one I visited was Longleat. Thank you for your tips, it can be a very pricey experience and any savings would be a huge benefit.
It can help to make savings on a trip to Center Parcs. It is a really lovely place to enjoy a family holiday.
I’ve never been to Centre Parks myself, but I have priced it before and I couldn’t believe the price difference between term and non term time. Some great tips to try and cut down the costs x
Wow, so many great tips here. If I have not know this it would have cost us more. Thank you so much. We’d definitely get most out of the pools.
Such a great place for the kids to explore and learn how to ride bikes. Thanks for the tips.
I keep getting advertised center parks but we have none near by. In fact, Ireland has very little of anything ever offered or advertised to us!
These center parks are great options for kids to be active during the summer break, and for parents to bond more with their children. Thanks for sharing!
Ooohhhh….the whole concept of the Center Parcs is completely new to me. I love it, though. I am definitely bookmarking your blogpost for future guidance.
Awesome tips to save! And I agree that we have to make use of all the free amenities.
There isn’t much that is free there but the pool is great!!!!
Center Parcs sounds like it has an activity for everyone. I’ve never heard of it, but it sounds delightful. The pictures really showcase an amazing place to visit. Thank you for the suggestion.
Free activities are the best! And they usually eat a lot of our time when on holidays, so it does chip off some of the expenses.
I’m always looking for ways to save money on vacation, whether or not the place is expensive! This article is so helpful. Thanks for sharing your tips.
This is such a helpful post. I have never been but my best friend lives in England and has been to this park many times. I will share this with her as she likes to take her son often and I know she would like to save money!
I can just imagine how much fun the whole family would have visiting this place! Thanks for sharing
Having a pass to help save is a great idea! I love this option with kids, because then you can enjoy so much more over those summer months. These parcs sound wonderful too.
Center Parcs are great for holidays or days out. Getting a day pass when others you know are there can be a great way to have a fantastic day or even a few days depending on how many of their bedrooms are available.
I would love to take a trip here! Cutting costs and staying on a budget is right up my alley. I’ll definitely look into taking a trip here!
I bet you’ll have the most amazing time. Have fun!!!
We have been to Center Parcs and thought it was really overpriced for the experience, sadly would not pay to go again.
That’s such a shame. I agree it is very expensive but it helps to know ways to make savings.
Your tips for cutting the cost of Center Parcs breaks are incredibly helpful and well-explained. I appreciate the thoroughness of your suggestions, including comparing site options, booking early, and considering off-peak seasons. Your personal experiences and insights make it even more relatable.
I’ve been a fair few times over the years so can share details from my experience which really do help. It is a lovely place to enjoy a holiday.
I think i’d save up a lot for a Center Parc break. This place is awesome and kids would really be happy and excited for this.
It is really good fun there.
Thank you for sharing your love for Center Parcs and your experience visiting their UK sites. It’s fantastic to hear that Elveden Forest is your favorite and that it offers a great environment for families with young children. Keep up the great work of sharing your knowledge and making family holidays more accessible for everyone!
Thanks so much. This is such a great holiday destination. It can be far cheaper than some sunny destinations too!!!
I truly feel good with any costs that I can cut during a trip. And your post gives me some ideas that I can use when traveling to Center Parcs.
Center Parcs have always been too expensive for us. Tbf I admit that I’ve never tried a last minute search to Center Parcs. I have tried to look at advance prices, but like you mentioned, during school break, they are ridiculously expensive. Maybe I’ll do that next time, or perhaps go abroad, as you stated they have them there and will potentially work out cheaper!
They can, I hope you get to book a break there soon.
My granddaughter and great grandson enjoy Center Parcs and it can be expensive but your tips about saving money there are interesting.
I’m glad you found the post interesting. It is a great place to visit.
I went a couple of times when my son was younger and not in school. But in school holidays it really is just too expensive.
It can be very expensive during holiday time.
I have never been,I would love to though as it looks great fun
Some great advice, when I was younger we used to go round late November early December time, still lots of things to do.
Booking early is a great tip if you are able to plan in advance, we have found this can save a lot!
It can depending on when it’s booked for and the type of accommodation.
Really good shout on the check-in and check-out times as a good way of maximising y our break.
Aaahhh yes, I know how to make the most of my breaks there!!!
We have been and yes its very costly ! I had not thought about some of these ideas and tips Thanks for sharing them
No problem, thanks for viisting Julia.
I’ve never been to Center Parcs – have always believed it to be too expensive but some good well thought out advise here – may just consider it
Look out for inset days as these vary between schools and sometimes you’ll get a few in a row!!